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Post by Vitamin K on Jan 13, 2017 14:42:23 GMT -5
So, dangit. I'm gonna blame gravitymafia for this. His fault that I got to thinking. Actually, it dovetails with a convo I was having with another Scout Dad on another forum. Was urging him to use oil on his son's car, because his district allowed it, and he was going to be at a disadvantage otherwise. So I told him he needed to get this, this, this and this, etc. Went over the basic oil process. So, he started to look up prices and vendors and discovered (lo and behold) that it was gonna cost him a lot of money to get all the crap he needed to get up and running. So, it brought me back to the earlier posting GM made about the actual costs of Krytox and whatever-the-heck Black Ice polish really is, and now I'm wondering...what would a wheel/axle prep starter kit aimed at Scouts look like, and what would it cost to distribute? - Well, first off, we'd need some oil: Go with Krytox GPL 100, until somebody figures out what to add to it to make it faster. - Next, we need some synthetic bore wax: Maybe Rejex, or Blackfire? - We need some plastic polish: Good old Novus #2 - We need some wet/dry sandpaper...something like 500 - 3000 in 500-grit grades. - A few tamiya swabs. - A few fluffy pipe cleaners. - A needle bottle for the oil. - Squeeze bottles for the wax and polish. - Maybe an emery board for filing down BSA axles. Okay, let's get the pencil and paper out here and figure out costs. We can buy 0.5 kilograms (by weight) of Krytox GPL 100 for ~236 bucks. Assuming a density of 1.77 g/mL, that gives us about 282mL of product, or, 76 fluid drams. Thus, our cost to provide a dram of oil is $3.11. If we get the economy sized container of Blackfire, we get 128oz for 80 bucks. If we include a .5oz amount of wax in our kit, that puts our cost at a whopping $0.63. For the bore polish, a big jug of Novus 2 will run us $22.50 for 64oz. If we similarly break off a .5oz amount of polish for our kit, we're paying $0.18 per unit. Next up, sandpaper. We can go with a variety pack like this: www.amazon.com/Sandpaper-Assortment-Automotive-Furniture-Finishing/dp/B01F6MDL7U for $8.59. Cutting each sheet in half (we get four of each) gives us a 3.6" x 4.5" sheet. So assuming we want to give a small sheet of each grade in the pack, we're looking at one pack providing enough for 8 kits. Or, in other words, our unit cost for providing polishing sandpaper is $1.08. Tamiya swabs are about $5.19 for a pack of 50. If we give 'em 5 swabs, that's $0.52 there. I don't remember exactly the cost of fluffy pipe cleaners at the smoke shop. Let's say $3.00 for a pack of 25. If we give 5 pipe cleaners, that's $0.60. Needle bottles go for $7.57 for a 10 pack, so $0.76 cost for that. Little plastic squeezy bottles are $11.95 for a 25 pack, so two would cost us $0.96 (The cost for the bottles is like, the same as the product they contain!) Finally, an emery board is $6.15 for a pack of 144. So that's $.05 to throw one in. Let's look at our cost per kit...totals to be $7.87. Wait, is that right? So, if we charge $15.00 bucks a kit for all that (I mean, it takes us some time to measure and assemble, right?), we're still providing the goods way cheaper than any Scout team could get elsewhere. I would consider this to be an act of service to the scouting community AND a big middle finger to the argument that it's too expensive for Scouts to run oil. |
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Post by Skywalker Racing on Jan 13, 2017 16:54:03 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure 5kids Racing puts together and distributes kits like this for his kids' Pack. Can't remember if it included the oil (and he was still using Q-tips instead of Tamiyas), but all the bore and axle polish components were there. He even made videos demonstrating how to use each item for the Scouts.
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Post by Vitamin K on Jan 13, 2017 19:02:57 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure 5kids Racing puts together and distributes kits like this for his kids' Pack. Can't remember if it included the oil (and he was still using Q-tips instead of Tamiyas), but all the bore and axle polish components were there. He even made videos demonstrating how to use each item for the Scouts. So why not wider distribution? Deference to vendors? |
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Post by Skywalker Racing on Jan 13, 2017 22:54:40 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure 5kids Racing puts together and distributes kits like this for his kids' Pack. Can't remember if it included the oil (and he was still using Q-tips instead of Tamiyas), but all the bore and axle polish components were there. He even made videos demonstrating how to use each item for the Scouts. So why not wider distribution? Deference to vendors? That I don't know. I'm sure he just didn't care to get into it for business - just wanted to help his local kids out. He's a great guy. |
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Post by Vitamin K on Jan 14, 2017 0:03:49 GMT -5
So why not wider distribution? Deference to vendors? That I don't know. I'm sure he just didn't care to get into it for business - just wanted to help his local kids out. He's a great guy. I don't really have any ideas of profit either. Could probably mark them up even less...say, to 10 bucks, to cover unanticipated costs. Would just be nice to be able to tell folks they could get started with a quality oil-running setup for under 20 bucks (when you figure in the axle spray they'll need), yanno? |
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Post by micro on Jan 14, 2017 9:27:13 GMT -5
If you go to the PWDracing shop in Rosemount you can get all the tools and supplies and track time for 30 bucks. If you don't want unlimited track time it is 20 for just making a car. Problem is I think it is hard to maintain a shop at that rate. I like the micromesh better than the regular sandpaper. I'd suggest the axles from the China Revel wheels so you do not need to remove the fins. Tungsten is a must too! If each pack bought a kit and shared it, I would think it would last for a few years for sure.
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Post by Vitamin K on Jan 14, 2017 11:15:15 GMT -5
If you go to the PWDracing shop in Rosemount you can get all the tools and supplies and track time for 30 bucks. If you don't want unlimited track time it is 20 for just making a car. Problem is I think it is hard to maintain a shop at that rate. I like the micromesh better than the regular sandpaper. I'd suggest the axles from the China Revel wheels so you do not need to remove the fins. Tungsten is a must too! If each pack bought a kit and shared it, I would think it would last for a few years for sure. Hmm, wonder how including Micromesh would affect the kit pricing. Probably not by more than a buck or so. Affordable tungsten for all is another nut that needs to be cracked. gravitymafia's half-price fire sale is proof that the current prices folks pay are artificially inflated. Suspect that it's not happening at the vendor level, but at the supplier level. Disrupt the supply chain, and prices fall everywhere. Would be great to see more Scout teams able to afford tungsten without choking at the cost. Regarding the PWDracing shop...you don't know how badly I wish we had something like that near me.  |
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Post by Skywalker Racing on Jan 14, 2017 11:30:29 GMT -5
If I could afford it, I'd love to open up a shop where I could host test and tune sessions for local scouts. It'd give me the added benefit of having a spot my track could stay permanently set up. #dreams
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Post by Vitamin K on Feb 5, 2017 17:36:41 GMT -5
So I'm a computer guy. I write code for a living. One concept we have in the software world is that of Open Source Software. The idea is that when you have enough people needing the same thing, it makes more sense for the community to produce said thing, rather than letting some single private entity control it. In order to assure that the product is accessible to all, not only is the end product itself made freely available, but the source code is made open as well, so that anybody is free to modify or improve it.
What I think that I would like to do is to apply this philosophy to building a Pinewood Derby starter kit. What we have are items that everybody needs, yet are only available through commercial channels that quickly add up in price. By assembling a complete-yet-inexpensive kit, we offer a service that will hopefully help buoy the Pinewood Derby hobby.
So what does that mean? Well, obviously we can't just give products away. The materials have to come from somewhere. What we can do, however, is offer completely free intellectual property. We can also create a community effort to obtain and distribute quality racing goods at minimum cost to the consumers.
What I envision is a crowdfunded effort: Possibly Kickstarter or Indiegogo. What we'd need to do would be to calculate the number of units required to distribute a basic oil starter kit at a low price...let's say 15 bucks. If we hit our goal, that funds the cost of buying the materials and packaging them into individual containers. We would also want to produce literature on proper usage, and maybe even a few Youtube videos that could show new racers how to get started with the oil process.
I also envision complete transparency. If we're buying, say, Blackfire polish, well, then, we say right in the package that it's Blackfire polish. Even better, we include the manufacturer's own safety sheets and information right in our kit. We have nothing to hide, so we can offer higher safety standards than any of the other vendors out there! Everybody else is just repackaging product as well, but we can do it honestly!
The best part is that there's no risk involved. Either we hit our target required numbers, or we don't. If we do, we build and ship the kits. If we don't, then we don't do it. Nothing up front to worry about. I think it could be a lot of fun, and it would be AWESOME to be able to say to fellow Scout Dads, "Hey, skip that overpriced stuff at the Scout Store. We can get you started running oil for fifteen bucks."
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Feb 5, 2017 20:49:55 GMT -5
OK...
Kurt,
First off...
I love the hustle out there on the field.
This could be a good way to get more people involved.
I am not sure that I fully understand the idea, but it sounds like a great way to unify the fellas for a common goal.
Today, a starter kit... tomorrow, a stadium!
After the whole MakerBot thing... I feel weird about open source stuff... but if you can steer the ship then I have no fear.
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Feb 5, 2017 20:58:40 GMT -5
Secondly... The 5Kids website is wonderful... but needs a makeover.
A one minute video... (Challenging).
I am curious though... If there is no monetary incentive... then won't someone tire of th maintenance of this idea?
This is exactly why the PWD Illuminati need to start collecting yearly dues.
In order to fund worthwhile PWD initiatives such as these!
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Post by Vitamin K on Feb 5, 2017 21:09:19 GMT -5
Secondly... The 5Kids website is wonderful... but needs a makeover. A one minute video... (Challenging). I am curious though... If there is no monetary incentive... then won't someone tire of th maintenance of this idea? This is exactly why the PWD Illuminati need to start collecting yearly dues. In order to fund worthwhile PWD initiatives such as these! I already spend too much of my time doing Pinewood stuff. Better I spend it bettering the community and helping grow the hobby than getting into fights on forums.  Also, hopefully the people that benefit from the availability of low-priced supplies will contribute their knowledge and discoveries back to the initiative. What I want to see, ideally, is a force behind the growth of the hobby that's not dependent upon making somebody money. |
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Feb 5, 2017 22:19:22 GMT -5
Secondly... The 5Kids website is wonderful... but needs a makeover. A one minute video... (Challenging). I am curious though... If there is no monetary incentive... then won't someone tire of th maintenance of this idea? This is exactly why the PWD Illuminati need to start collecting yearly dues. In order to fund worthwhile PWD initiatives such as these! I already spend too much of my time doing Pinewood stuff. Better I spend it bettering the community and helping grow the hobby than getting into fights on forums. Also, hopefully the people that benefit from the availability of low-priced supplies will contribute their knowledge and discoveries back to the initiative. What I want to see, ideally, is a force behind the growth of the hobby that's not dependent upon making somebody money. Well... to each his own... Just keep watch for my back when you see my dumb ass getting stomped out. Looks like you just doubled your workload. lol OK... Check this out... There are actually services that will take the orders... send you the money... and mail the stuff out to the customers... All you have to do is send them the products and give a fee... Sounds about right for this type of caper. |
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Post by Vitamin K on Feb 5, 2017 22:49:51 GMT -5
I already spend too much of my time doing Pinewood stuff. Better I spend it bettering the community and helping grow the hobby than getting into fights on forums. Also, hopefully the people that benefit from the availability of low-priced supplies will contribute their knowledge and discoveries back to the initiative. What I want to see, ideally, is a force behind the growth of the hobby that's not dependent upon making somebody money. Well... to each his own... Just keep watch for my back when you see my dumb ass getting stomped out. Looks like you just doubled your workload. lol OK... Check this out... There are actually services that will take the orders... send you the money... and mail the stuff out to the customers... All you have to do is send them the products and give a fee... Sounds about right for this type of caper. I expect the initial run to be pretty small. Definitely something to think about it if really takes off, though. |
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Feb 5, 2017 23:56:10 GMT -5
Think big pal.
The net will appear.
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