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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 12, 2018 11:59:58 GMT -5
It just seems the wheel would have a greater surface area and that the drag against the rail would be slowing its rotation VS a pin set in a way that could have very little surface area and could be a very slick material or even a bearing It's worth noting that surface area of contact is not a factor in standard friction equations. A tiny bearing might be able to do better, but I'm not sure. I just see it as trying to run a circular saw through plywood in a straight line while holding the saw sideways. Surface area might not matter in an equation, but I think the real world application would generally prove otherwise. But I'm not a Scientist |
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Eagle
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Post by Eagle on Jun 12, 2018 12:29:32 GMT -5
coffinnailracing: the whole idea of the 2018 Concept Challenge is to try new things, combine things that aren't normally combined, prove things, disprove things, etc.
For me an idea has to be disproved (most of the time by me) before I will dismiss it.
Not having the equipment to build some of the things/concepts (like I recently mentioned to you Para glider and 4 Tops) drives me crazy. I keep working ideas thinking even if I can come up with a prototype maybe one of the guys on the TEAM will see it and we can get it built.
Your dragster has inspired me to build out a car that I didn't envision doing. And, I have no idea how or what to do with razor wheels or bearings in fat wheels.
I hope that we all learn, help each other, and come up with some cool ideas that Scout dads, Scouts, maybe some pros, and maybe even a few Scout Mom's can use to come up with their own ideas and things to test and learn from.
Much like other trades crafts if we don't learn and share then the whole thing dies and we buy our premade PWD cars from another country while our kids brains go numb looking at electronic devices not learning any practical problem solving or hands on skills.
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Post by Vitamin K on Jun 12, 2018 13:00:55 GMT -5
It's worth noting that surface area of contact is not a factor in standard friction equations. A tiny bearing might be able to do better, but I'm not sure. I just see it as trying to run a circular saw through plywood in a straight line while holding the saw sideways. Surface area might not matter in an equation, but I think the real world application would generally prove otherwise. But I'm not a Scientist Think of it this way: If I have a tire that's rolling loose, and the tire is upright so that the tread is parallel to the running surface (the ground), the tire will roll for quite a ways. If the tire gets nudged so that instead of rolling flat, it is rolling on its corner at an angle, it will still roll for quite some time, at least as long as it maintains its balance. Once the tire tips over all the way, though, and is flat on its side, it quickly comes to a stop. Now, in the case of our DFW wheel, we have two running surfaces, at right angles to one another. If we ran the wheel completely vertical, it would have rolling friction with the track (the ground), but sliding friction against the rail. However, if we put a healthy amount of positive camber on that wheel, we tilt the wheel so that now it is presenting a corner to both the track and the rail, and each of these corner is rolling, rather than sliding. And, even though surface area isn't a huge concern of ours, it's worth noting that the wheel is only touching track and rail at single points, rather than along its entire surface. Enjoy my incredibly crappy illustration:  |
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Eagle
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Post by Eagle on Jun 12, 2018 13:58:47 GMT -5
This may be one of your quicker illustrations, but I love them. They are real, well thought out and serve the purpose. Some might call it quick and dirty. I say that your efforts to make a visual are hugely appreciated and save an incredible amount of time misinterpreting or attempting to understand what you might be explaining.
Keep it up!!
As to the science etc. I'll leave that up to Chuy or one of the other TEAM. From a racing perspective Your razor wheel in this position makes more sense then the fat. Reasoning is the razor wheel is only touching the track once. So why not have it multi purpose. The fat wheel/standard BSA wheel will now be touching two places.
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Jun 13, 2018 0:48:19 GMT -5
P.S. here's one for the Science Guys. Extremly low center of gravity, nearly no drag on the rail, likely no steering needed, bullet Aerodynamics, "wiggle" would be nearly impossible. Other than maybe the diagrams wheel angle is too steep, any reason it wouldn't work? I’m pretty sure that fellas drop weight between the rails in the bearing class... Mainly because after Zeeb came up with the innovation of making extremely small wheels on bearing cars.. there isn’t much room left behind the axles for the weight. if you want the wheels to be all the way back on the car then you hafta stack up the weight or hang it low. I think fellas might be going wider now with the rear of their bearing car bodies... i dont really pay pay attention to that class...fellas are so secretive about that class (like anyone even cares.) then they want more fellas to race that class but nobody even knows wtf they look like unless they are live at a race.. pfft. Anyway... I digress... fellas used to cant all for fat wheels like that when rail riding first made an appearance... it was called “rail hugging”. but I think that there was some sort of bind happening that made it not so effective. |
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Post by Skywalker Racing on Jun 13, 2018 19:59:51 GMT -5
Question: I saw what I assume is a 3D cross section of Best Track and it looks like the center rail is actually sort of a squared "U" shape. So my question is ... is there a reason (other than rules) one couldn't drop the body lower than the side rails (see diagram) into the slot? Has it ever been tried? Only want to do this on a track that you know is safe. Stop section can be an issue and cause flipping. I also found out that track curves can vary (even between BestTracks), and sometimes you can have a hard time getting through the transition. The weight placement (hanging low or going wide) issue came up on the NPWDRL forum before and inspired me to write the following (set to the tune of "Do Your Ears Hang Low")  Do your weights hang low?
Do they wobble to and fro?
Can you run em down the track?
Or in transition make you slow?
Would they make your butt look wide
if they weren't so tucked inside?
Why do your weights hang low?npwdrl.boards.net/thread/1616/experimental-weights |
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 13, 2018 20:25:03 GMT -5
Question: I saw what I assume is a 3D cross section of Best Track and it looks like the center rail is actually sort of a squared "U" shape. So my question is ... is there a reason (other than rules) one couldn't drop the body lower than the side rails (see diagram) into the slot? Has it ever been tried? Only want to do this on a track that you know is safe. Stop section can be an issue and cause flipping. I also found out that track curves can vary (even between BestTracks), and sometimes you can have a hard time getting through the transition. The weight placement (hanging low or going wide) issue came up on the NPWDRL forum before and inspired me to write the following (set to the tune of "Do Your Ears Hang Low") Do your weights hang low?
Do they wobble to and fro?
Can you run em down the track?
Or in transition make you slow?
Would they make your butt look wide
if they weren't so tucked inside?
Why do your weights hang low?npwdrl.boards.net/thread/1616/experimental-weightsThats pretty funny. Yes, I figured not every track would be exactly the same, but I imagine there must be some amount that's doable without bursting into flames from friction |
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 13, 2018 20:28:46 GMT -5
The Crazy Idea Factory has been working overtime, had a couple more ideas I might try to build in the future ... simple stuff, but interested to see what happens.
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Jun 13, 2018 21:36:23 GMT -5
Question: I saw what I assume is a 3D cross section of Best Track and it looks like the center rail is actually sort of a squared "U" shape. So my question is ... is there a reason (other than rules) one couldn't drop the body lower than the side rails (see diagram) into the slot? Has it ever been tried? Only want to do this on a track that you know is safe. Stop section can be an issue and cause flipping. I also found out that track curves can vary (even between BestTracks), and sometimes you can have a hard time getting through the transition. The weight placement (hanging low or going wide) issue came up on the NPWDRL forum before and inspired me to write the following (set to the tune of "Do Your Ears Hang Low") Do your weights hang low?
Do they wobble to and fro?
Can you run em down the track?
Or in transition make you slow?
Would they make your butt look wide
if they weren't so tucked inside?
Why do your weights hang low?npwdrl.boards.net/thread/1616/experimental-weightsOk... am I the only one on this forum that is unfamiliar with “Do Your Ears Hang Low”? Soooo.... what’s the latest and greatest? Big wide asses? Or saggy asses? |
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 13, 2018 23:32:33 GMT -5
coffinnailracing: the whole idea of the 2018 Concept Challenge is to try new things, combine things that aren't normally combined, prove things, disprove things, etc. For me an idea has to be disproved (most of the time by me) before I will dismiss it. Not having the equipment to build some of the things/concepts (like I recently mentioned to you Para glider and 4 Tops) drives me crazy. I keep working ideas thinking even if I can come up with a prototype maybe one of the guys on the TEAM will see it and we can get it built. Your dragster has inspired me to build out a car that I didn't envision doing. And, I have no idea how or what to do with razor wheels or bearings in fat wheels. I hope that we all learn, help each other, and come up with some cool ideas that Scout dads, Scouts, maybe some pros, and maybe even a few Scout Mom's can use to come up with their own ideas and things to test and learn from. Much like other trades crafts if we don't learn and share then the whole thing dies and we buy our premade PWD cars from another country while our kids brains go numb looking at electronic devices not learning any practical problem solving or hands on skills. I wouldn't let my kids (if I had any) anywhere near a video game, cell phone or iPad until they were able to build something, anything .. I can't stand seeing kids that are Apple Zombies |
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Post by Skywalker Racing on Jun 14, 2018 10:10:25 GMT -5
Ok... am I the only one on this forum that is unfamiliar with “Do Your Ears Hang Low”? Soooo.... what’s the latest and greatest? Big wide asses? Or saggy asses? Probably just where my headspace is with little kids in the house. Its a pretty well-known nursery rhyme though - covered by everyone from Barney to the Wiggles, Disney characters etc. There's even been rap songs based on it (Chains hang low comes to mind). We actually have one of these things. Babies love em. As for the wide vs saggy question, I'd say it looks like the top guys are skewing wide lately. I'm not a top guy in that class, so I'm still saggin (but not between the rails). I have a wide car idea cooking, but haven't tested yet. |
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Jun 14, 2018 12:39:51 GMT -5
Always seemed to make better sense to me that it should be a wide rear.... although for the life of me, at the moment, I can’t remember why.
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Post by micro on Jun 14, 2018 15:08:40 GMT -5
Maybe I should run my dental bearing car in the concept car challenge? It was very slow, but I bet the guys would get a big kick out of the terrible sound it makes as it goes down the track.
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Post by Chuy on Jun 14, 2018 15:18:02 GMT -5
Maybe I should run my dental bearing car in the concept car challenge? It was very slow, but I bet the guys would get a big kick out of the terrible sound it makes as it goes down the track. Is it anything like a dental drill on teeth? |
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Post by micro on Jun 14, 2018 15:47:14 GMT -5
LOL, the sound of the drill on teeth is not a terrible sound, but rather the sound of production. The sound the car makes is more like a train going down the tracks.
The smell of cutting on a dry tooth is what is terrible.
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