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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 11, 2018 23:26:00 GMT -5
Question: I saw what I assume is a 3D cross section of Best Track and it looks like the center rail is actually sort of a squared "U" shape. So my question is ... is there a reason (other than rules) one couldn't drop the body lower than the side rails (see diagram) into the slot? Has it ever been tried?  |
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Eagle
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Post by Eagle on Jun 11, 2018 23:41:42 GMT -5
I asked the very same question.
The answer I got was there is some room there.
I saw people add weight there way lower than I would go. One car went too far and his car got hung up on the curve. He was also overweight. They took off a layer and ran it. It was a very intricate car. And, we were not allowed to handle. But, I would have loved to get a measurement.(cleared & didn't clear).
After my cars got the wiggles at MA this year I would have to say I would keep the drop down narrow. Assure that it cannot hit the rails even if the car is to the extreme one way or the other. Or, you will be creating drag.
A narrow dragster nose would fit. Just make sure that it is not stuck out so far as to catch at the curve. With the wheels as far forward as you drew.,I think you should be fine. Maybe your guide pin could run on the inside of the rail as well.
"Straight and Narrow"
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 11, 2018 23:43:52 GMT -5
P.S. here's one for the Science Guys. Extremly low center of gravity, nearly no drag on the rail, likely no steering needed, bullet Aerodynamics, "wiggle" would be nearly impossible. Other than maybe the diagrams wheel angle is too steep, any reason it wouldn't work?  |
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Eagle
Goodfella
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Post by Eagle on Jun 11, 2018 23:55:55 GMT -5
Funny how much we think alike George. I have drawn and mocked up two similar designs, but mine didn't use razor wheels and axles at an angle like that.
One is a little more than a half pipe. I call it the Para glider. Hoping to use air underneath to help lift the car.
The other is an open tube. And, the fully covered individual fenders are mounted on a spar that can slide on the tube. This would allow the adjustment of the wheel base to desired length. minimal frame. Only real drag is created by necessary parts. And those have a wedge lead up. I call it the 4 Tops.
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 11, 2018 23:56:10 GMT -5
I asked the very same question. The answer I got was there is some room there. I saw people add weight there way lower than I would go. One car went too far and his car got hung up on the curve. He was also overweight. They took off a layer and ran it. It was a very intricate car. And, we were not allowed to handle. But, I would have loved to get a measurement.(cleared & didn't clear). After my cars got the wiggles at MA this year I would have to say I would keep the drop down narrow. Assure that it cannot hit the rails even if the car is to the extreme one way or the other. Or, you will be creating drag. A narrow dragster nose would fit. Just make sure that it is not stuck out so far as to catch at the curve. With the wheels as far forward as you drew.,I think you should be fine. Maybe your guide pin could run on the inside of the rail as well. "Straight and Narrow" Diagram is hardly to scale, but yes hitting the rails or bottoming out would be bad. which brings me to another thing I've thought about, how to get the least drag on the guide pin ... I assume that's what's riding against the rail? It's something else I have no idea how it's setup |
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Eagle
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Post by Eagle on Jun 12, 2018 0:01:54 GMT -5
Me either. I have never run one. But, need to learn. The primary differences between my 2nd place big rig II and the winner was the winner used an antenna. I used a wing. And, he took one of the front wheels and moved it to the back. He used a guide pin up front.
I have never seen a car with both a guide pin and a wheel up front. So, it will depend on what it's purpose is.
With one wheel eliminated the guide pin is insurance that if the car gets the wiggles or effected by a draft from another car that it isn't derailed. But, with a wheel upfront??
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 12, 2018 0:13:23 GMT -5
Me either. I have never run one. But, need to learn. The primary differences between my 2nd place big rig II and the winner was the winner used an antenna. I used a wing. And, he took one of the front wheels and moved it to the back. He used a guide pin up front. I have never seen a car with both a guide pin and a wheel up front. So, it will depend on what it's purpose is. With one wheel eliminated the guide pin is insurance that if the car gets the wiggles or effected by a draft from another car that it isn't derailed. But, with a wheel upfront?? I my mind and I could be wrong, it seems to me that in "rail riding" the wheel trying to rotate against the drag of the rail would be less efficient than the smallest possible surface of a guide pin or maybe a bearing on a guide pin |
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Eagle
Goodfella
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Eagle on Jun 12, 2018 0:17:50 GMT -5
The idea of rail riding is that only one wheel touches the rail. It keeps the rears off the rail. And, it allows for more weight in the rear. If you can make the car run straight and have nothing or min of a guide pin it should be faster. Most rules do not allow a guide pin. Maybe that is why.
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 12, 2018 0:31:58 GMT -5
Funny how much we think alike George. Its because neither of us knows enough about PWD to know we are wrong most likely 😂 |
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 12, 2018 0:34:29 GMT -5
We need a complete track in 3D simulator to run and test 3D models on to see if they work 🤔
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Post by Vitamin K on Jun 12, 2018 7:27:27 GMT -5
Me either. I have never run one. But, need to learn. The primary differences between my 2nd place big rig II and the winner was the winner used an antenna. I used a wing. And, he took one of the front wheels and moved it to the back. He used a guide pin up front. I have never seen a car with both a guide pin and a wheel up front. So, it will depend on what it's purpose is. With one wheel eliminated the guide pin is insurance that if the car gets the wiggles or effected by a draft from another car that it isn't derailed. But, with a wheel upfront?? I my mind and I could be wrong, it seems to me that in "rail riding" the wheel trying to rotate against the drag of the rail would be less efficient than the smallest possible surface of a guide pin or maybe a bearing on a guide pin A properly tuned rail-guided car will roll along the rail, rather than drag against it. That's why the fast people like so much angle on their DFW. Helps get the rolling surface of the wheel in contact with the rail and the track simultaneously. |
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 12, 2018 11:37:13 GMT -5
I my mind and I could be wrong, it seems to me that in "rail riding" the wheel trying to rotate against the drag of the rail would be less efficient than the smallest possible surface of a guide pin or maybe a bearing on a guide pin A properly tuned rail-guided car will roll along the rail, rather than drag against it. That's why the fast people like so much angle on their DFW. Helps get the rolling surface of the wheel in contact with the rail and the track simultaneously. Some how it both does and doesn't make sense to me. But I guess that doesn't matter if it works. |
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Post by Vitamin K on Jun 12, 2018 11:44:06 GMT -5
A properly tuned rail-guided car will roll along the rail, rather than drag against it. That's why the fast people like so much angle on their DFW. Helps get the rolling surface of the wheel in contact with the rail and the track simultaneously. Some how it both does and doesn't make sense to me. But I guess that doesn't matter if it works. What part has you flummoxed? |
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Post by coffinnailracing on Jun 12, 2018 11:48:53 GMT -5
Some how it both does and doesn't make sense to me. But I guess that doesn't matter if it works. What part has you flummoxed? It just seems the wheel would have a greater surface area and that the drag against the rail would be slowing its rotation VS a pin set in a way that could have very little surface area and could be a very slick material or even a bearing |
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Post by Vitamin K on Jun 12, 2018 11:51:21 GMT -5
What part has you flummoxed? It just seems the wheel would have a greater surface area and that the drag against the rail would be slowing its rotation VS a pin set in a way that could have very little surface area and could be a very slick material or even a bearing It's worth noting that surface area of contact is not a factor in standard friction equations. A tiny bearing might be able to do better, but I'm not sure. |
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