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Post by micro on Apr 10, 2017 9:26:58 GMT -5
I posted this at APR as they were sharing good information..I thought I would add to it. Enjoy. Hello, I'm new here, but like when good information is shared. Robert, I really like your graphics. Very Impressive! Along with the axle hole placement I think that the rear wheels and alignment need to dictate the build. People like to center the car so that the rear wheels are equally away from the rails. I do this by using a jig I made to center the car and position the DFW so that the rear wheels are equidistant from the rail. The jig is very basic, just a 1.75 inch wide piece of aluminum with a notch for the DFW for where the rail would be. Here is the picture of the jig on a section of track:  Next I set up the jig on a granite surface plate with a ruler clamped down and using 123 blocks. Using the 123 blocks I center/square up the jig:   Next I place pin gauges in the rear axles and adjust steer per the usual. Then I place the car on the surface plate and get the pin gauges tight against the 123 blocks. I center the rear of the car body on the jig as both are 1.75". This simulates how the rear wheels will be going down the track. I then look at the front wheel and see how much I need to remove to get the inner edge of the wheel tight to the notched out area.   A close up of the distance the DFW is away from the "rail".  And now go and trim the side of the car. Here are the results after that:   Run it down the track and see where the rears are:  Looks pretty good to me. Thanks! |
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Apr 10, 2017 13:25:18 GMT -5
Good Stuff MB!
I need to make one of those too!
Especially with these pieced together builds that I am favoring now.
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Post by Crash Enburn on Apr 10, 2017 23:33:10 GMT -5
Pretty cool, Micro. Makes me wonder if I'm anal retentive enough to ever win a league race.  |
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Apr 10, 2017 23:49:09 GMT -5
I know that I am not, Eric... It takes a special breed... Personally, I enjoy other aspects of the hobby.
Most fellas just want to be the fastest on the track on that day... every day they race...
It makes sense...
but it doesn't interest/ drive me... It is the fuel for some fellas... Like Andy...and Hurricrane...
MB,
You sir...
are "The King of Camber"!
Nice work on these alignment photos!
Very precise...
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Post by davet on Apr 17, 2017 20:49:28 GMT -5
Man, you must have a wife that works opposite hours as you.
Looking at how precise you're getting I began wondering. Would it mean less friction if you could get the car as straight as possible down the track? I mean, what if the rear wheel behind the DFW ran closer to the rail than the opposite rear. Would the car be at less of an angle, thus, less rear wheel scrubbing?
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Post by Crash Enburn on Apr 17, 2017 21:11:50 GMT -5
Would it mean less friction if you could get the car as straight as possible down the track? I mean, what if the rear wheel behind the DFW ran closer to the rail than the opposite rear. Would the car be at less of an angle, thus, less rear wheel scrubbing? Dave - If the rears are in alignment, the car will be running straight. There would be no more (or less) friction than aligning the DRW(? Is that a thing?) to be closer to the rail. I think in that configuration, though, you increase the risk of the rear wheel actually contacting the rail. But you never really know what the next, surprising breakthrough might be. |
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Post by Crash Enburn on Apr 17, 2017 21:16:50 GMT -5
micro - What am I seeing on the hub of your DFW (the white washer)? Is it loose? Attached? To the wheel, or to the body? Besides paying closer attention to my bore polishing, I think I need to look into bushings for my DFWs. By the way, my idea for using a nub of pencil lead as the contact point on the body is very likely a no-go. Turns out that the graphite they use in pencil leads is mixed with clay, so not as slick as Hob-e-lube. Then again, it's probably still slicker than just rubbin' on the paint. I may have to try this still...
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Post by davet on Apr 17, 2017 21:24:21 GMT -5
Would it mean less friction if you could get the car as straight as possible down the track? I mean, what if the rear wheel behind the DFW ran closer to the rail than the opposite rear. Would the car be at less of an angle, thus, less rear wheel scrubbing? Dave - If the rears are in alignment, the car will be running straight. There would be no more (or less) friction than aligning the DRW(? Is that a thing?) to be closer to the rail. I think in that configuration, though, you increase the risk of the rear wheel actually contacting the rail. But you never really know what the next, surprising breakthrough might be. I can see what you mean. A nice 4' piece of aluminum track would be nice for slowly rolling a car and getting a hands on look at some of this stuff. It sure seems likely that "the next big thing" will be in the area of alignment. Simply guys like MB trying stuff and unlocking a key. 20 yrs ago if you had told some of the racers that aligning a car to go down the track at a slight angle and rubbing the rail would be fast they would've looked at you funny. |
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Post by davet on Apr 17, 2017 21:37:50 GMT -5
micro - What am I seeing on the hub of your DFW (the white washer)? Is it loose? Attached? To the wheel, or to the body? Microbrush can explain these better but last year we used a set of these (his) clear wheel covers along with white, Delrin washers inside the cover. Easy to use, extremely light and durable. |
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Post by Vitamin K on Apr 17, 2017 21:54:02 GMT -5
But you never really know what the next, surprising breakthrough might be. (...) 20 yrs ago if you had told some of the racers that aligning a car to go down the track at a slight angle and rubbing the rail would be fast they would've looked at you funny. You know, I'm actually quite curious to know when rail riding/running was actually invented. We take this kind of thing for granted, with the Internet and suchlike, but how long did it go as some Scout dynasty's "Secret Weapon" before being unleashed upon the world at large? Some old timers like Stan Pope or TXChemist might spin some good yarns about that... |
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Post by micro on Apr 17, 2017 22:01:11 GMT -5
micro - What am I seeing on the hub of your DFW (the white washer)? Is it loose? Attached? To the wheel, or to the body? Besides paying closer attention to my bore polishing, I think I need to look into bushings for my DFWs. By the way, my idea for using a nub of pencil lead as the contact point on the body is very likely a no-go. Turns out that the graphite they use in pencil leads is mixed with clay, so not as slick as Hob-e-lube. Then again, it's probably still slicker than just rubbin' on the paint. I may have to try this still... Those are shields I make. I didn't want to piss people off, so I don't advertise them. So much for not pissing people off I guess. The washer snaps into the shield...no glue needed. The shield is retained on the axle...(all but EVO pro axle doesn't work as well due to the extra groove) |
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Apr 17, 2017 22:06:37 GMT -5
(...) 20 yrs ago if you had told some of the racers that aligning a car to go down the track at a slight angle and rubbing the rail would be fast they would've looked at you funny. You know, I'm actually quite curious to know when rail riding/running was actually invented. We take this kind of thing for granted, with the Internet and suchlike, but how long did it go as some Scout dynasty's "Secret Weapon" before being unleashed upon the world at large? Some old timers like Stan Pope or TXChemist might spin some good yarns about that... I showed you exactly where it was invented... on the Zeeb forum... the name of the thread is "an epic thread" I believe. |
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Post by davet on Apr 17, 2017 22:17:39 GMT -5
Funny you bring that up VK. A few yrs ago when we decided to try rail-riding I searched it pretty extensively and didn't stop at just the current forums. The earliest I found any mention of it was in a article from 2004 copied to the web. It was referred to as Rail-Hugging. It mentioned bending the front axle UP ".002-.003" and adjusting steer slightly from there. At the time there was a question as to whether one should have both wheels on that side rub the rail or just the front wheel. I also found where Stan had been involved in a discussion about it 2 yrs later.
You know that by the time it made into a publication some guy had already been doing a long time.
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Post by The Zeebzob on Apr 17, 2017 22:22:34 GMT -5
The rail riding Genesis is disputed like most things in this hobby.
But here is the story I found most credible is it was first conceived and implemented by a racer called Warp Speed. I believe he did have some part of the early derby work business . His name is Jay Wiles and he works in the Randy Dorton engine shop at Hendrick Motorsports.
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Post by Vitamin K on Apr 17, 2017 22:26:21 GMT -5
You know, I'm actually quite curious to know when rail riding/running was actually invented. We take this kind of thing for granted, with the Internet and suchlike, but how long did it go as some Scout dynasty's "Secret Weapon" before being unleashed upon the world at large? Some old timers like Stan Pope or TXChemist might spin some good yarns about that... I showed you exactly where it was invented... on the Zeeb forum... the name of the thread is "an epic thread" I believe. I don't seem to recall this thread, and I'm not finding it by searching... Besides, who reads that forum anyhow?  I thought this quote from Stan Pope over at DT was interesting, though: |
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