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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 27, 2018 15:22:08 GMT -5
Once touted as the only fair place to race...now what?? Episode 70
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Post by Alphonso on Feb 27, 2018 17:30:43 GMT -5
Once touted as the only fair place to race...now what?? Episode 70We got balls LOL
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Post by micro on Feb 27, 2018 18:25:22 GMT -5
Once touted as the only fair place to race...now what?? Episode 70We got balls LOL
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Eagle
Goodfella
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Eagle on Feb 28, 2018 0:27:52 GMT -5
Zeeb, Is there a way to see the showstoppers and /or vote without registering on the NPWDRL? Link?
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Post by Skywalker Racing on Feb 28, 2018 0:43:23 GMT -5
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Eagle
Goodfella
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Eagle on Feb 28, 2018 0:53:14 GMT -5
As to track and track setup: I have noticed that local tracks don't have anything to slow cars after finish line. First one I saw had a piece of stiff foam that fit over the end. Cars would hit and most would roll back. Ours was so fast it would hit and go flying onto the exposed aggregate floor.
Last weekend I helped set up the 2001 track. What a job! They let the cars just run off onto carpet and then onto a towel. This beat up the cars. My Balsa fenders took an extreme beating. So, race day I did some mods and got all cars stopped at end without flying or damage. But, before the top 3 girls raced the top 3 boys the track was swept. The sweeper removed my set up to sweep off. When he put it back it was not only altered all the cars began launching.
The question is - what is used on the newer (or league) traks to slow the cars? Is it avail to purchase? Can it be done on the cheap?
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Post by stumpm2 on Feb 28, 2018 1:04:36 GMT -5
Go to BestTrack.com and click on their link for the stop section.
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Post by Ember on Feb 28, 2018 1:17:18 GMT -5
The Zeebzob , the Podcast goes by faster than watching your favorite TV show, are going to do a live Podcast at MA/Nationals? Touching back on the fairness of proxy racing.....It's not really about knowing a cars steer, it's more about garnering the same information an attendee can. As an example, I recall a few months back one of the league racers gained quite a bit of speed from the previous months event. He later stated the speed came from something he saw on Cranes car from the previous month, where he had attended the event. I don't want to speak out of turn, but I bet most on the forum feel they could compete with any racer if they had access to the fastest cars every month. IMO John and Joel should be nearly unbeatable. The reason racers keep secrets is because they know if other racers had the same knowledge, they would have the same result, possibly better. I don't have a problem with that, I don't think any racer tells all their secrets. The X3 fenders have been a proven design, and of course were readily copied by nearly everyone racing in leagues, and later at Scout levels. Imagine if there were no internet, or photos, or any medium where other racers could see the design, only those that attended the event would know what to copy. Think of what we already know about other racers cars. We know the length, the weight, the thickness, the shape, the wheel base ,the material it's made of, the weight and size of the wheels, the cant of the wheels, the axle type, their fender design, their air shield shape, their weight material, the material they cover the car in...etc...the only thing really left is weight placement, steer, oil type,and wheel/axle prep.I don't need to know any of their specs anymore than the next guy, I just don't want to be in the position of not knowing things attendees have access to.
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Eagle
Goodfella
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Eagle on Feb 28, 2018 1:32:08 GMT -5
Will the besttrack system match up to an older track? Is it expandable to 6 lane?
If I'm reading it right 6 lane stop section is $138.00 plus $30. S&H
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 8:55:54 GMT -5
Zeeb, Is there a way to see the showstoppers and /or vote without registering on the NPWDRL? Link? You can see them, but you need an account to vote. It appears you are hesitant to do that...how come?
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 9:10:04 GMT -5
The Zeebzob , the Podcast goes by faster than watching your favorite TV show, are going to do a live Podcast at MA/Nationals? Touching back on the fairness of proxy racing.....It's not really about knowing a cars steer, it's more about garnering the same information an attendee can. As an example, I recall a few months back one of the league racers gained quite a bit of speed from the previous months event. He later stated the speed came from something he saw on Cranes car from the previous month, where he had attended the event. I don't want to speak out of turn, but I bet most on the forum feel they could compete with any racer if they had access to the fastest cars every month. IMO John and Joel should be nearly unbeatable. The reason racers keep secrets is because they know if other racers had the same knowledge, they would have the same result, possibly better. I don't have a problem with that, I don't think any racer tells all their secrets. The X3 fenders have been a proven design, and of course were readily copied by nearly everyone racing in leagues, and later at Scout levels. Imagine if there were no internet, or photos, or any medium where other racers could see the design, only those that attended the event would know what to copy. Think of what we already know about other racers cars. We know the length, the weight, the thickness, the shape, the wheel base ,the material it's made of, the weight and size of the wheels, the cant of the wheels, the axle type, their fender design, their air shield shape, their weight material, the material they cover the car in...etc...the only thing really left is weight placement, steer, oil type,and wheel/axle prep.I don't need to know any of their specs anymore than the next guy, I just don't want to be in the position of not knowing things attendees have access to. I think the real advantage is because you are there interacting with others. You cultivate friendships, develop a rapport. I have found you are more likely to gain info just through talking about your car to someone in person. Its much easier to give someone advise while standing right in front of them. But a faceless moniker behind some keyboard somewhere?? Not anywhere near as likely. Sure, you might see something just looking at the cars, but thats part of the whole experience. My first live event, I could see that I was not removing near enough wood out of the cars I made. The real goal is to get more live involvement. I encourage you to attend a live event. MA is coming soon. The Zeebzob Speed Shop is open to all as well. It all comes down to that word...."forced". No one should be forced to do anything when playing with toy cars...lol Also, when at a live event, some guys tune their cars there. If they do, give them space. Hovering over them and studying their every adjustment is a dick move. So even if you were at a live event and JBD is tuning (guarantee you he will be), put the spy camera away. HAHAHAHA
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Post by Ember on Feb 28, 2018 11:14:34 GMT -5
Ahh.. spy gate in Pinewood Derby, Tom and Bill would be proud. I fully agree about the interactions and friendships, but I think it goes to my point. Attending events has many advantages, advantages the faceless are not privy to. What you see as a group of friends,many new comers might see as a clique "in the know". If friendship allows your car to get down the hill faster, we don't really have a race, we have a popularity contest. Don't get me wrong,that's life, and life certainly isn't fair, but when a newbie comes to the forum and sees these things, it sours them a bit toward proxy racing. I think most agree D1 is faster than typical Kyrtox blends, but we also know it can dry out rather quickly. Do you feel an attendee at MA or Nationals should be able to apply their oil an hour or so before the event, while proxy racers are forced to lube their cars days before? It's akin to saying if you show up to the event you can run race fuel, if you don't you must run 87 octane pump gas. IMO all of Pinewood racing is about forcing you to do things.... are we not forced to to keep our cars under a certain length...are we not forced to keep our cars under a certain weight...are we not forced to keep our wheels under a certain weight...are we not forced to use certain types of axles...are we not forced to use a certain material for our car bodies...are we not forced to use a certain number of wheels...are we not forced to keep our wheels under a certain angle,are we not forced not to run aero improvement in some classes ...are we not forced to run certain types of lubes, are we not forced to race in every lane of the track, are we not forced to keep our cars a minimum distance above the track,...and on and on. All of these things are implemented for one reason, to ensure an equitable race.I think that's all most racers are looking for,as long as attendees can garner information non attendees can't...there is always going to be an inequity in proxy racing. Would you be willing to piss off the top 5 racers to bring in 50 new racers? Don't get me wrong, I don't think the top racers should be forced to show or tell things that are not attainable by attending the event. For example, what wax they use, what oil, their wheel or axle prep...etc. I don't know the answer Zeeb, only that I would like to see the racing as fair as possible,for the cool kids, as well as the faceless army hiding in the shadows.
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Eagle
Goodfella
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Eagle on Feb 28, 2018 11:31:56 GMT -5
Ember to follow up on your last comment as a newbie. There is a definite plus to being able to race and not having to go to an event - the pocket book. When I raced if we couldn't attend either because of work or $ we didn't get the points etc etc.
There is a big trust issue. Am I going to get a fair shake. Is something going to be changed or altered on my car. Am I disadvantaged because of ....
But, if you want things to be truly equal than essentially you don't have proxy racing you have a league or classes that everyone has their car in by a certain date/time and are untouched until they are returned to the owner after the race. Maybe all cars have to be postmarked by a certain date. People that can go will still go. But, allowing those present to tune etc is a big advantage.
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 12:21:01 GMT -5
Ahh.. spy gate in Pinewood Derby, Tom and Bill would be proud. Well, If I were Tom and Bill...who would I be? I fully agree about the interactions and friendships, but I think it goes to my point. Attending events has many advantages, advantages the faceless are not privy to. What you see as a group of friends,many new comers might see as a clique "in the know". You have the choice of not being one of the faceless. Attend a race - you're allowed. If friendship allows your car to get down the hill faster, we don't really have a race, we have a popularity contest. Don't get me wrong,that's life, and life certainly isn't fair, but when a newbie comes to the forum and sees these things, it sours them a bit toward proxy racing. Proxy racing sucks almost anyway you look at it...but it's what we have. I think most agree D1 is faster than typical Kyrtox blends, but we also know it can dry out rather quickly. Do you feel an attendee at MA or Nationals should be able to apply their oil an hour or so before the event, while proxy racers are forced to lube their cars days before? It's akin to saying if you show up to the event you can run race fuel, if you don't you must run 87 octane pump gas. It is not far. I am in favor of the "enter the day before the race and do not touch again" rule. This crap with everyone keeping their cars in bags until that class is up sucks. IMO all of Pinewood racing is about forcing you to do things.... are we not forced to to keep our cars under a certain length...are we not forced to keep our cars under a certain weight...are we not forced to keep our wheels under a certain weight...are we not forced to use certain types of axles...are we not forced to use a certain material for our car bodies...are we not forced to use a certain number of wheels...are we not forced to keep our wheels under a certain angle,are we not forced not to run aero improvement in some classes ...are we not forced to run certain types of lubes, are we not forced to race in every lane of the track, are we not forced to keep our cars a minimum distance above the track,...and on and on. Weak argument. Yes, we are forced to adhere to those rules, but they are made public and known before you even think about sending in a car. You need to allow some variables. I would agree to your rule if everyone was forced to run the same amount of steer, and then have it check to meet the rule. All of these things are implemented for one reason, to ensure an equitable race.I think that's all most racers are looking for,as long as attendees can garner information non attendees can't...there is always going to be an inequity in proxy racing. Would you be willing to piss off the top 5 racers to bring in 50 new racers? Where is your data showing this would bring 50 new racers? Don't get me wrong, I don't think the top racers should be forced to show or tell things that are not attainable by attending the event. For example, what wax they use, what oil, their wheel or axle prep...etc. I don't know the answer Zeeb, only that I would like to see the racing as fair as possible,for the cool kids, as well as the faceless army hiding in the shadows. I know all the answers..I am The Zeebzob! If you really want to do away with all of this, get a track, have races, do not allow proxy - live only. Until you are willing to do that and find out you will have one other person show up regularly, proxy is what we have.
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Post by stumpm2 on Feb 28, 2018 12:37:30 GMT -5
I think most agree D1 is faster than typical Kyrtox blends, but we also know it can dry out rather quickly. Do you feel an attendee at MA or Nationals should be able to apply their oil an hour or so before the event, while proxy racers are forced to lube their cars days before? It's akin to saying if you show up to the event you can run race fuel, if you don't you must run 87 octane pump gas. It is not far. I am in favor of the "enter the day before the race and do not touch again" rule. This crap with everyone keeping their cars in bags until that class is up I will second Zeeb on this one. I think it is only fair for the proxy racers to have a check-in dead line that the in person racers have to meet also. They could easily do an in person check-in the night before and then cars can not be touched other than by those conducting the race.
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