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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 12:46:31 GMT -5
Another thing to consider with the proxy disadvantage;
I hold a race here yearly. This is how it came to be. A bunch up the guys local to my area were pinewood enthusiasts and would come to my house for testing sine I have a track. We would test and test and test all day long. Then one time Goat said we should rack them up at the end of the testing and race. It was just like 4 or 5 guys with maybe 10 cars but it was a BLAST! We decided to do this every month after testing. Goat being a machinist, machined up some plaques that had all the charm of the sign outside the mens room of a local dive bar and handed them to the winners. Well word of this got out and people showed interest, so we decided to open one of these test session races up to anyone who wanted to send in a car. I don't think we should change due to demands of the proxy racer. Now it could be said that if you look at the NPWDRL, its built upon the proxy racer. I would agree. If you watch the monthly races, its almost always 100% proxy. Once in a while Jason Parr or Bulldog or someone will show up live to the typical monthly race. And if they do, they are working their asses off helping Joel run the show. The big races are really the only ones that have a lot of live racers. I used to complain that Kinser had too much of an advantage being at live races. Until I attended one. That dude worked tirelessly for start to finish. Unboxing cars. Checking them in. Prestaging. Cleaning the track. Boxing cars back up at the end. When i was watching him, it was clear that he didn't have the time to study other peoples cars. Most people who attend live races pitch in to help because its a big undertaking. I no longer complain about live racers.
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Post by Skywalker Racing on Feb 28, 2018 13:02:21 GMT -5
DWS is one of the faceless army. Is part of no PWD clique. Attends no live races. Never whines nor opines on PWD message boards. Nearly won Man of the Mountain racing all proxy in his rookie season. Just does work. #respect
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Post by Ember on Feb 28, 2018 13:05:24 GMT -5
Ahh.. spy gate in Pinewood Derby, Tom and Bill would be proud. Well, If I were Tom and Bill...who would I be? A Quarterback and a Coach.I fully agree about the interactions and friendships, but I think it goes to my point. Attending events has many advantages, advantages the faceless are not privy to. What you see as a group of friends,many new comers might see as a clique "in the know". You have the choice of not being one of the faceless. Attend a race - you're allowed. I shouldn't have to attend to be competitive.If friendship allows your car to get down the hill faster, we don't really have a race, we have a popularity contest. Don't get me wrong,that's life, and life certainly isn't fair, but when a newbie comes to the forum and sees these things, it sours them a bit toward proxy racing. Proxy racing sucks almost anyway you look at it...but it's what we have. It's what we have, but it's also something that can be improved upon.I think most agree D1 is faster than typical Kyrtox blends, but we also know it can dry out rather quickly. Do you feel an attendee at MA or Nationals should be able to apply their oil an hour or so before the event, while proxy racers are forced to lube their cars days before? It's akin to saying if you show up to the event you can run race fuel, if you don't you must run 87 octane pump gas. It is not far. I am in favor of the "enter the day before the race and do not touch again" rule. This crap with everyone keeping their cars in bags until that class is up sucks. I agree, off with their heads !IMO all of Pinewood racing is about forcing you to do things.... are we not forced to to keep our cars under a certain length...are we not forced to keep our cars under a certain weight...are we not forced to keep our wheels under a certain weight...are we not forced to use certain types of axles...are we not forced to use a certain material for our car bodies...are we not forced to use a certain number of wheels...are we not forced to keep our wheels under a certain angle,are we not forced not to run aero improvement in some classes ...are we not forced to run certain types of lubes, are we not forced to race in every lane of the track, are we not forced to keep our cars a minimum distance above the track,...and on and on. Weak argument. Yes, we are forced to adhere to those rules, but they are made public and known before you even think about sending in a car. You need to allow some variables. I would agree to your rule if everyone was forced to run the same amount of steer, and then have it check to meet the rule. Why not try it?All of these things are implemented for one reason, to ensure an equitable race.I think that's all most racers are looking for,as long as attendees can garner information non attendees can't...there is always going to be an inequity in proxy racing. Would you be willing to piss off the top 5 racers to bring in 50 new racers? Where is your data showing this would bring 50 new racers? Along side the data showing it would piss off the top five racers.Don't get me wrong, I don't think the top racers should be forced to show or tell things that are not attainable by attending the event. For example, what wax they use, what oil, their wheel or axle prep...etc. I don't know the answer Zeeb, only that I would like to see the racing as fair as possible,for the cool kids, as well as the faceless army hiding in the shadows. I know all the answers..I am The Zeebzob! I like the cut of your jib !If you really want to do away with all of this, get a track, have races, do not allow proxy - live only. Until you are willing to do that and find out you will have one other person show up regularly, proxy is what we have. Strive to grow and improve proxy, it should be a dynamic entity, not a static archaic relic from the past.
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Post by Ember on Feb 28, 2018 13:08:09 GMT -5
It is not far. I am in favor of the "enter the day before the race and do not touch again" rule. This crap with everyone keeping their cars in bags until that class is up I will second Zeeb on this one. I think it is only fair for the proxy racers to have a check-in dead line that the in person racers have to meet also. They could easily do an in person check-in the night before and then cars can not be touched other than by those conducting the race. I agree a 100%. Unless they want to split the classes into in-person and proxy.
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Post by Ember on Feb 28, 2018 13:22:01 GMT -5
Another thing to consider with the proxy disadvantage; I hold a race here yearly. This is how it came to be. A bunch up the guys local to my area were pinewood enthusiasts and would come to my house for testing sine I have a track. We would test and test and test all day long. Then one time Goat said we should rack them up at the end of the testing and race. It was just like 4 or 5 guys with maybe 10 cars but it was a BLAST! We decided to do this every month after testing. Goat being a machinist, machined up some plaques that had all the charm of the sign outside the mens room of a local dive bar and handed them to the winners. Well word of this got out and people showed interest, so we decided to open one of these test session races up to anyone who wanted to send in a car. I don't think we should change due to demands of the proxy racer. Now it could be said that if you look at the NPWDRL, its built upon the proxy racer. I would agree. If you watch the monthly races, its almost always 100% proxy. Once in a while Jason Parr or Bulldog or someone will show up live to the typical monthly race. And if they do, they are working their asses off helping Joel run the show. The big races are really the only ones that have a lot of live racers. I used to complain that Kinser had too much of an advantage being at live races. Until I attended one. That dude worked tirelessly for start to finish. Unboxing cars. Checking them in. Prestaging. Cleaning the track. Boxing cars back up at the end. When i was watching him, it was clear that he didn't have the time to study other peoples cars. Most people who attend live races pitch in to help because its a big undertaking. I no longer complain about live racers. I don't think you would have to attend every race, perhaps just one or two. In reality only a few minutes inspecting a car at one event could be enough.If as an example there happened to be a top super secret weight placement the top racers are using, it would only take me a few seconds to view, and I would forever have the speed gain from it. I know a lot of the top racers get tweaked that JBD sells his cars, why should they care? I seriously doubt he is selling his winning cars without first changing them a bit, if he is he's a fool.
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 13:32:26 GMT -5
Another thing to consider with the proxy disadvantage; I hold a race here yearly. This is how it came to be. A bunch up the guys local to my area were pinewood enthusiasts and would come to my house for testing sine I have a track. We would test and test and test all day long. Then one time Goat said we should rack them up at the end of the testing and race. It was just like 4 or 5 guys with maybe 10 cars but it was a BLAST! We decided to do this every month after testing. Goat being a machinist, machined up some plaques that had all the charm of the sign outside the mens room of a local dive bar and handed them to the winners. Well word of this got out and people showed interest, so we decided to open one of these test session races up to anyone who wanted to send in a car. I don't think we should change due to demands of the proxy racer. Now it could be said that if you look at the NPWDRL, its built upon the proxy racer. I would agree. If you watch the monthly races, its almost always 100% proxy. Once in a while Jason Parr or Bulldog or someone will show up live to the typical monthly race. And if they do, they are working their asses off helping Joel run the show. The big races are really the only ones that have a lot of live racers. I used to complain that Kinser had too much of an advantage being at live races. Until I attended one. That dude worked tirelessly for start to finish. Unboxing cars. Checking them in. Prestaging. Cleaning the track. Boxing cars back up at the end. When i was watching him, it was clear that he didn't have the time to study other peoples cars. Most people who attend live races pitch in to help because its a big undertaking. I no longer complain about live racers. I don't think you would have to attend every race, perhaps just one or two. In reality only a few minutes inspecting a car at one event could be enough.If as an example there happened to be a top super secret weight placement the top racers are using, it would only take me a few seconds to view, and I would forever have the speed gain from it. I know a lot of the top racers get tweaked that JBD sells his cars, why should they care? I seriously doubt he is selling his winning cars without first changing them a bit, if he is he's a fool. If you saw any of my cars from an arms length distance, you still would not know the weighting secrets they have. Especially if you can't see the bottom. When I build a car, there is much time and effort put into what can and cannot be seen.
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Post by Alphonso on Feb 28, 2018 13:34:20 GMT -5
I don't think you would have to attend every race, perhaps just one or two. In reality only a few minutes inspecting a car at one event could be enough.If as an example there happened to be a top super secret weight placement the top racers are using, it would only take me a few seconds to view, and I would forever have the speed gain from it. I know a lot of the top racers get tweaked that JBD sells his cars, why should they care? I seriously doubt he is selling his winning cars without first changing them a bit, if he is he's a fool. If you saw any of my cars from an arms length distance, you still would not know the weighting secrets they have. Especially if you can't see the bottom. When I build a car, there is much time and effort put into what can and cannot be seen. You have secrets! How dare you! Shame Shame!
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 13:50:41 GMT -5
Well, If I were Tom and Bill...who would I be? A Quarterback and a Coach.You have the choice of not being one of the faceless. Attend a race - you're allowed. I shouldn't have to attend to be competitive.Proxy racing sucks almost anyway you look at it...but it's what we have. It's what we have, but it's also something that can be improved upon.It is not far. I am in favor of the "enter the day before the race and do not touch again" rule. This crap with everyone keeping their cars in bags until that class is up sucks. I agree, off with their heads !Weak argument. Yes, we are forced to adhere to those rules, but they are made public and known before you even think about sending in a car. You need to allow some variables. I would agree to your rule if everyone was forced to run the same amount of steer, and then have it check to meet the rule. Why not try it?Where is your data showing this would bring 50 new racers? Along side the data showing it would piss off the top five racers.I know all the answers..I am The Zeebzob! I like the cut of your jib !If you really want to do away with all of this, get a track, have races, do not allow proxy - live only. Until you are willing to do that and find out you will have one other person show up regularly, proxy is what we have. Strive to grow and improve proxy, it should be a dynamic entity, not a static archaic relic from the past.1) I didn't realize you were on a first name basis with them! Good for you! 2)Its not about having to attend..its WANTING to attend and doing it! The fun and fellowship is really what its all about. Everyone wants to win, not everyone will. Just enjoy it. Just making the finals is tough enough, and you can certainly do that if you have never been to a live event. I believe DWS has never been live and he smoked everyone last year. 3) EVERYTHING can be approved upon, perfection is unattainable. But lets not improve it so much that it ends up sucking. 4) Headless racers are the easiest ones to beat 5) Everyone having the same steer? Who decides what that number should be? I vote 13 inches over 4 feet 6) The data is flawed. 7) Do you listen to True Crime Garage?!?!? 8) To improve proxy, one would have to disallow live racers, otherwise you are trying to level 2 different playing fields.
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Post by Ember on Feb 28, 2018 13:52:37 GMT -5
If you saw any of my cars from an arms length distance, you still would not know the weighting secrets they have. Especially if you can't see the bottom. When I build a car, there is much time and effort put into what can and cannot be seen. You have secrets! How dare you! Shame Shame! Yeah...he's holding out the SOB ! Zeeb, if there is so much in what can't be seen, surely there's no harm in showing what can be seen?
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 13:54:30 GMT -5
You have secrets! How dare you! Shame Shame! Yeah...he's holding out the SOB ! Zeeb, if there is so much in what can't be seen, surely there's no harm in showing what can be seen? And you can see all that in the pics at NPWDRL
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Eagle
Goodfella
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Eagle on Feb 28, 2018 14:04:13 GMT -5
Zeeb: Link please to the pics you speak of.
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 14:05:28 GMT -5
Zeeb: Link please to the pics you speak of. How long did your parents wipe your ass? Just go the NPWDRL site
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Eagle
Goodfella
Posts: 2,228
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Post by Eagle on Feb 28, 2018 14:18:58 GMT -5
Conversation makes no sense if you don't show what you are talking about. I'm gonna step out. Not interested in the drama. Just hear to build and have fun. And, from Sienfeld - No Vote for You!
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Post by Ember on Feb 28, 2018 14:25:53 GMT -5
Zeeb: Link please to the pics you speak of. How long did your parents wipe your ass? Just go the NPWDRL site That's a secret, he shouldn't be forced to divulge that information. It's not really the fact that his ass got wiped, it's how it got wiped, and with what that makes it special. I'll tell you one thing, it's one event I don't want the advantage of attending !
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Post by The Zeebzob on Feb 28, 2018 14:35:14 GMT -5
Conversation makes no sense if you don't show what you are talking about. I'm gonna step out. Not interested in the drama. Just hear to build and have fun. And, from Sienfeld - No Vote for You! *here Fine. I'll help you out This is a web browser. Note the thing at the top. Its the address bar. In the address bar, enter npwdrl.board.net This will take you to the NPWDRL forum Over to the right, we have what's known as a scroll bar. You'll want to pay particular attention to the arrow at the bottom. This will allow you to see whats down below. Find the pictures section of the site and click monthly lineup This will give you a listing of past months car entry pics Select one and you will get this. Please use the aforementioned scroll bar to see more I put a lot of work into this. So pretty please. With sugar on top. Gimme your fucking vote.
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