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Post by Crash Enburn on Apr 6, 2017 16:34:04 GMT -5
This is a quick video of wheel truing. youtu.be/CEc_ytZr9NsIt doesn't take that long to do it. And for what glenn and dd4h charge they have no place to complain about money. What size pin are you using there? Just a slip fit? Very intriguing. VK - I love this idea. If only for my selfish reasons. Do we know what the crack Krytox dealers are cutting the oil with? Just alcohol? If so, does it merely evaporate, leaving plain Krytox behind? |
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Post by Professor Moriarty on Apr 6, 2017 17:52:40 GMT -5
LOL!!! I watched Jim's video that was linked here.... I don't think that I saw this one before because he kinda calls out DerbyDud and Jukes in this one.
I am going to have to get him chiming in over here again... You fellas are great... but there is nothing subtle about Jim.
We need less subtlety in this here hobby of ours.
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Post by Vitamin K on Apr 6, 2017 20:30:38 GMT -5
This is a quick video of wheel truing. youtu.be/CEc_ytZr9NsIt doesn't take that long to do it. And for what glenn and dd4h charge they have no place to complain about money. What size pin are you using there? Just a slip fit? Very intriguing. VK - I love this idea. If only for my selfish reasons. Do we know what the crack Krytox dealers are cutting the oil with? Just alcohol? If so, does it merely evaporate, leaving plain Krytox behind? Wheel bores will vary from about .094" to .098". You want an interference fit that's going to hold the wheel tight, but not deform the bore. What (I've heard) folks will do is to sort their wheels by bore size and turn the wheels of the largest bore size first on the lathe, then narrow the pin to the next size, then do the next batch...etc. etc. Of course, it is worth mentioning that smaller bored wheels are more desirable than big bore wheels! Of course, it's also worth mentioning that I've never seen any vendor selling wheels of a specific bore size. Hmmm, so who is getting those Grade-A bores, and who's getting the less desirable ones? This thread by Murph is pretty interesting, on that topic. BSB chimes in too.As for what the Krytox gets cut with...I have no idea. If you hear anything about this, come whisper in my ear. Sporty tells me that cutting with alcohol was common at race day events, and would give a speed boost until it evaporated. I think John is using something else...but if it was just alcohol, that would be the slickest marketing coup ever. I am interested in trying this stuff for thinning Krytox, but as things currently stand, I'm not set up to do real experimentation with that kind of thing. |
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Post by Vitamin K on May 4, 2017 22:21:38 GMT -5
Believe it or not, I haven't abandoned this endeavor. I'm starting to scratch away at a "script" for a little video spiel to associate with a crowdfunding effort. I really want this to happen. In the meantime, you may recall that I was flirting with the idea of including Liquid Glass Legends as the bore wax in these kits. Stuff's expensive AF, but apparently it it still held in some esteem by some well known derbyheads. Also I like the idea of being an inexpensive source for Legend polish. With that in mind, I went to the website of the company that makes Legends and I asked them where I could obtain some in my area. The response I got was interesting: So Legend is no more...now we have Argos. I don't know if that was common knowledge, but it is news to me. Same price as Legend (boo) though if you buy a 3-pack you get a slight discount. I am a little hesitant to use this for the kits, though, since it isn't the exact same formula as Legend, so I wonder if maybe it isn't as good. However, even more interesting, if you follow the link to the Argos product, you'll see another product on the same page, "Icon." Apparently Icon is even better than Argo, and it costs even more. 300 bucks for a 16oz bottle. Holy schnikes!So now I'm intrigued...what do you have to do to a formula to justify a 300 dollar price tag? Are there gold flakes in there or something? Crazy, I tell you. And yet...what if it's the proverbial "Lightning in a Bottle?" I wonder if they'd send me a sample to try.  |
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Post by Crash Enburn on May 4, 2017 22:37:19 GMT -5
Well, since you're looking at this as being for scouts, and not for pros, do you think the formula has changed significantly enough to turn the bores into pine sap? It couldn't hurt to ask for a very small sample (like a dram) to try and see if they've gone to the tree sap formula. Let 'em know what you're up to. It's for the kids. |
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Post by Skywalker Racing on May 4, 2017 22:40:56 GMT -5
It's made by hand   |
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Post by Crash Enburn on May 5, 2017 9:35:40 GMT -5
I subscribe to a classic car magazine. One of their advertisers is Swissvax. They sell a jar of carnuba wax for $1499.
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Post by Vitamin K on May 5, 2017 11:00:20 GMT -5
I subscribe to a classic car magazine. One of their advertisers is Swissvax. They sell a jar of carnuba wax for $1499. Wow, that's up there with The Cables. Anyhow, I emailed the folks who make Argos and asked if any samples were available. I was told that the smallest size they had was the 16oz bottle, which is a hunnerd bux. Boo. I think I may go back to using Rejex in the Oil Kits, just because I know it's a proven product. Though if anybody has some Argos and wants to send me some... |
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Post by lostaussie on May 5, 2017 20:53:02 GMT -5
However, even more interesting, if you follow the link to the Argos product, you'll see another product on the same page, "Icon." Apparently Icon is even better than Argo, and it costs even more. 300 bucks for a 16oz bottle. Holy schnikes!After looking at the site for icon I noticed the following "Effectively acts as a liquid paint protection film with twelve or more applications." They then say "We recommend waiting a minimum of four to eight hours between coats for the product to cure properly." So to do the wheels properly you may need a couple of days minimum to get 12 coats down. Not sure many scouts would go for that but a pro could try it and see how it compares to existing products. |
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Post by Vitamin K on May 5, 2017 21:11:43 GMT -5
However, even more interesting, if you follow the link to the Argos product, you'll see another product on the same page, "Icon." Apparently Icon is even better than Argo, and it costs even more. 300 bucks for a 16oz bottle. Holy schnikes!After looking at the site for icon I noticed the following "Effectively acts as a liquid paint protection film with twelve or more applications." They then say "We recommend waiting a minimum of four to eight hours between coats for the product to cure properly." So to do the wheels properly you may need a couple of days minimum to get 12 coats down. Not sure many scouts would go for that but a pro could try it and see how it compares to existing products. FWIW, I'm pretty sure that Legend used to say the same thing. Legend actually has empirical evidence as being an effective Pinewood bore wax. |
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Post by stumpm2 on May 7, 2017 11:05:15 GMT -5
What is Red Rocket and is it availble or is it just a repackaged and renamed wax from a vendor. Is this the system before Black Ice? I am new to this since my son just got into scouts. I have read several things claiming it is as fast or faster than Legends, but since I can not find it anywhere I assume it must be repackaged under a different name. I have some ideas on waxes/glazes I have used in the past for high end cars. I just need to come up with a way to test them so I can share.
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Post by Vitamin K on May 7, 2017 11:48:06 GMT -5
What is Red Rocket and is it availble or is it just a repackaged and renamed wax from a vendor. Is this the system before Black Ice? I am new to this since my son just got into scouts. I have read several things claiming it is as fast or faster than Legends, but since I can not find it anywhere I assume it must be repackaged under a different name. I have some ideas on waxes/glazes I have used in the past for high end cars. I just need to come up with a way to test them so I can share. Red Rocket is the axle polish/wax that DD4H used to market and sell. It was rumored Red Rocket was primarily Rejex brand wax with some kind of added red dye. I don't personally have any kind of verification to this claim, other than the fact that several people in the PWD community have asserted that it is true. Red Rocket has been superseded by the Black Ice system. I have heard some suggestions that the wax component in the Black Ice system may be Blackfire brand polish, but, again, I don't have any real verification of that. It's safe to say that almost ALL Pinewood Derby products are simply repackagings of some other commercial product, since none of the vendors are established enough to have their own in-house chemical plants and research departments. As far as testing goes, I've had some ideas for a rig to test wheel/axle performance, but right now, I think that track testing is really the only sure way to know. |
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Post by stumpm2 on May 7, 2017 12:18:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I have a little experience with Blackfire and as far as Automobiles are concerned the product I am thinking of is superior in hardness, longevity, and felt slickness. It is a little bit more difficult to work with on automobiles than Blackfire, but is a better Product on plastic. Looks like I am starting with the correct type of products in mind. From what I have gathered Legends, Rejex, and Blackfire have all been known to do a good job and possibly used in DD4H's system at one time.
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Post by Vitamin K on May 7, 2017 12:26:26 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I have a little experience with Blackfire and as far as Automobiles are concerned the product I am thinking of is superior in hardness, longevity, and felt slickness. It is a little bit more difficult to work with on automobiles than Blackfire, but is a better Product on plastic. Looks like I am starting with the correct type of products in mind. From what I have gathered Legends, Rejex, and Blackfire have all been known to do a good job and possibly used in DD4H's system at one time. Very cool. If you're willing to share the results you get, I'm very interested in learning how it works out for you. Then again, if you're looking to get competitive and guard your "speed secrets" then I understand that as well. |
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Post by stumpm2 on May 7, 2017 12:53:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. I have a little experience with Blackfire and as far as Automobiles are concerned the product I am thinking of is superior in hardness, longevity, and felt slickness. It is a little bit more difficult to work with on automobiles than Blackfire, but is a better Product on plastic. Looks like I am starting with the correct type of products in mind. From what I have gathered Legends, Rejex, and Blackfire have all been known to do a good job and possibly used in DD4H's system at one time. Very cool. If you're willing to share the results you get, I'm very interested in learning how it works out for you. Then again, if you're looking to get competitive and guard your "speed secrets" then I understand that as well. I will definitely share with those that have helped me here. Maybe we can come up with a good solution to the Scout kit your are working on. |
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